E-mail from 12th January 2002

Dear Miroslav, 

You wrote: "Dear Jessica, 
Many thanks for a detailed email. Your corrections are useful. But I 
have another questions more. Was her son Reynold from marriage with 
William I de Warenne? Had she another issue with him (a child born in 
1085)? Any information will be welcome." 

Yes, Reynold was William's. Orderic Vitalis mentions that on his deathbed, 
William I de Warenne left his English lands to his elder son William, and the 
Flemish lands to his younger son Reynold. This Reynold led the assault on 
Rouen in 1090 in support of William Rufus, and in 1105 he supported Duke 
Robert of Normandy against Henry I. He was captured shortly before the battle 
of Tinchebrai on the 28th of September, 1106, but released. He had died 
before 1118, at which time Willem II de Warenne gives Lewes priory 6 
churches, for the soul of his brother Reynold "and his other relations 
deceased". 

As for the 1085 child, there probably wasn't one. Gundred's supposed death in 
childbirth in 1085 comes from a forged cartulary that also calls her daughter 
of the Conqueror, which we know she wasn't. She and William probably married 
shortly after the Conquest of England in 1066, and they were certainly 
married by 1070, when her brother Frederick was killed by followers of 
Hereward the Wake. Therefore, her three known children (William, Reynold, and 
Aldgyth) can be given birthdates of about 1066-1075. William and Reynold both 
succeeded jointly upon the death of their father in 1088, with no wards 
looking over them, and so were probably at least in their teens at that time, 
putting William's birthdate about 1069, making him nineteen on his father's 
death. Their sister Aldgyth wed Gérard de Gournay about 1090, and she must 
have been at least twelve at the time (their daughter, Gundred de Gournay, 
married Nigel d'Oilly in June of 1118) putting her birthdate about 1076. As 
for Reynold, there's no telling his birthdate, except that he was younger 
than William. Since her three known children were all probably born in the 
late 1060s and early to mid 1070s, Gundred herself was probably born around 
1048, making her eighteen or so on her marriage. This would've put her in her 
late thirties/early forties at the time of her "death" in 1085, making it 
unlikely she died in childbirth (women reached menopause earlier back then). 
And since the cartulary is so late, and contains information we know to be 
incorrect, I see no reason to trust the deathdate it gives us. Especially 
since it calls Gundred "Countess of Surrey" -- if she died in 1085, she 
couldn't have been Countess of Surrey, as her husband was created Earl of 
Surrey until 1088! 

I hope this is of use. 

Goodbye, 

Jessica Bonner nichol_storm@yahoo.com


Back to Warenne page.

31st January 2002